Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

REDRESS: ".....as fair an arrangement as possible...."

Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
Dear all, I don't know how to resolve this case.
Please, I'm asking for your help.

ILCA Master class.
It's a one-day championship with two races.
Boat A is sailing 10 boat lengths from the starting line, and boat B is stationary 2 boat lengths from the starting line.
Three minutes before the start, the boats are RACING, boat  A approaches and breaks boat B's rudder.
Boat B cannot participate in either of the championship races.
Boat A retires (RET)

61.2 Requesting for Redress: VALID

How would I solve this REDRESS ??

Cheers !!!
Cata
Created: Yesterday 16:15

Comments

Format:
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Michael Butterfield
If the requirements are met grant redress but the redress is the score remains the same. This is the only fair result. 
Created: Yesterday 16:34
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
Reply to: 20644 - Michael Butterfield
If the requirements are met grant redress but the redress is the score remains the same. This is the only fair result.
".....the score remains the same."

Thank you very much for your response.
What do you think the score would be?

What do yoy think about this ?
Boat A RET
Boat B DNC
Created: Yesterday 21:31
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Reply to: 20644 - Michael Butterfield
What do yoy think about this ? Boat A RET Boat B DNC
Boat B came to the starting area in Race 1.

Race 1:  DNS
Race 2:  DNC.

Arguably, unless RRS A5.3 is in use for other than a short series, DNC is meaningless and shouldn't be used.
Created: Yesterday 21:46
P
John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Under 61.4(c), and given a two-race, one-day event, give B redress only for the race nearest in time (Race 1) and score Race 2 DNC. For Race 1, use 61.4(d) to determine B’s probable finishing place from credible evidence (recent comparable results, practice/qualifying performance, rankings if relevant, and reliable testimony), then award B a Race 1 score consistent with that probable result. Race 2 remains DNC (Case 116).
Created: Yesterday 16:45
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Reply to: 20645 - John D. Farris
CASE 116 A discussion of redress in a situation in which a boat is damaged early in a series, is entitled to redress under rule 61.4(b)(2), and is prevented by the damage from sailing the remaining races. In such a situation, to be fair to the other ...
John Farris' solution is very cleverly avoiding the restriction in Case 116.

Case 116 covers average points.

John's solution does not give average points.  It assigns a probable finishing place.

However, it observes the principle stated in Case 116 as nearly as is reasonably possible by only giving the adjustment for one our of two races.

In nearly all circumstances this redress will have no significant effect on the series results (except possibly for a very successful boat in a very small fleet), so arguably giving this redress would be futile, except to give some comfort to the damaged boat.

I think redress that would be more fair to all boats would be to refund the boat's entry fee.
Created: Yesterday 21:12
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
Thanks you so much !!!!
Created: Yesterday 21:35
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
CASE 116
A discussion of redress in a situation in which a boat is damaged early in a series, is entitled to redress under rule 61.4(b)(2), and is prevented by the damage from sailing the remaining races. In such a situation, to be fair to the other boats in the series, the protest committee should ensure that fewer than half of the race scores included in her series score, after any exclusion(s), are based on average points.
Created: Yesterday 17:11
Robert Bruno
If I read your post correctly, Boat B was unable to race any of the races in the series, so I don't see how to apply average points, since no race was completed. Is that a fair description of your situation?
Created: Yesterday 17:25
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
YUP....correct.
Created: Yesterday 18:16
Satish Kumar Kanwar
Requirements for grant of redress are met. However, she has not sailed in any race and it would not be fair on the other boats to give her a position based on any previous performance. So I agree that the redress be granted and the redress is that there is no change to her score.
Created: Yesterday 17:47
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
Thanks you so much !!!!
Created: Yesterday 21:37
Jim Champ
Nationality: United Kingdom
Agree with Mark, Satish, can't give her a position with no races completed. Liaise with organisers, see if they will refund entrance fee, or anything else that they can do. 
Created: Yesterday 18:16
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
Thank you for your comments!
This was a real case we had in Argentina at ILCA 6.
Boat B went back to the club and didn't request redress, and the RO didn't take any action either.
Boat A RET.

Cheers !!!!!
Created: Yesterday 22:01
Nick Taylor
Question about boat A penalty I can understand her score race one as RET. Does that also mean RET for the whole series while boat B is unable to sail? 
We have often talked about this at the club with no definitive answer.

Also under good sportsmanship why didn’t boat A offer to lend her rudder to boat B for the second race, as it’s one design class they should be interchangeable. 

Thanks Nick

Created: Today 00:43
Peter Lowndes
Nationality: Australia
Somehting I have seen IJs I have worked with is to ask what redress they believe is appropriate. This is a tough one but in such a situation how does one come up with redress that is "as fair and arrangment as possible for all boats affected". Even if the person had done well in lead up regattas, they are different fleets in different conditions and potentially even different equipment (save the good sails for the big races) so I would have trouble considering this to give any meaningful redress. Without any mark rounding information or rough placement at the time of incident I don't believe you could assign any place to the affected boat. Sometimes its a cruel sport but that's the way it is.
Created: Today 05:06
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