Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Rule 17 upwind before and after the start.

Hi all,

I’m looking for clarification on how Rule 17 applies in the following situation.
Boat Y is at the start line on starboard tack.
Boat X, initially clear astern, becomes overlapped to leeward within two hull lengths of Boat Y while both are on starboard, before the starting signal.
The starting signal sounds, and the boats remain overlapped as described above.

Questions
1 Is Rule 17 “on” before the start, but effectively inactive because there is no proper course before the starting signal?
2 After the start, does Rule 17 apply even though the overlap was established before the start? In other words, once the race has started, must Boat X (the leeward boat) not sail above her proper course while the overlap continues?
3 How long would Rule 17 continue to apply?

My current thinking
1  = Rule 17 is technically in effect before the start, but has no practical effect because there is no proper course before the starting signal.
2 = After the start, Rule 17 still applies, even though the overlap was created before the start, meaning Boat X cannot sail above her proper course while overlapped.
3 = Rule 17 would continue to apply until the overlap is broken, the boats separate by more than two hull lengths, or one of the boats tacks.

Additional thought
Since Boat X is the leeward boat, her proper course could still be higher than Boat Y’s current course, meaning she might still be able to luff enough to force Boat Y to tack without breaking Rule 17, provided she does not sail above her own proper course.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Thanks,
Nick

Created: 26-Mar-14 17:11

Comments

Format:
Andrew Alberti
Your analysis appears to be completely correct. 
Created: 26-Mar-14 18:11
Satish Kumar Kanwar
Correct thoughts Nick.
Created: 26-Mar-14 19:09
Paul Murray
1&2 are good. 
3 all good except 17 still applies, their is no limit on how far apart they are to turn 17 ‘off’

And yes boats can have different proper courses. Refer to the definition of proper course. 
Created: 26-Mar-14 19:20
Andrew Alberti
Sorry Paul. Rule 17 says “while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance” so Nick was right in #3
Created: 26-Mar-14 19:26
Frank Brinkers
Nationality: Germany
Agreed to #1-3. :) 

Adding to your additional point: 
A typical example would be boat X sailing near the pin-end and luffing above close-hauled to fetch it and start. In this case, the proper course could even be head to wind for a moment to fetch and pass the pin-end. 

Created: 26-Mar-15 00:34
P
Anthony Pelletier
Nationality: United States
Agree with your thoughts and Frank's addition. Your proper course is the course you would sail to get around the course as quickly as possible in the absence of the other boat referred to in the rule. In the absence of boat Y, boat X would have luffed up to clear the pin, as Frank said. So that is her proper course. 

Created: 26-Mar-15 02:23
Capt Tribhuwan Jaiswal
Nationality: India
The preamble to part 2 rules states
 " The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing. ...."
Therefore RRS 17 is on after the Preparatory Signal.
However, since there is no proper course before the starting signal, the leeward boat can luff the windward boat upto head to wind as long as she maintains the overlap withing two boat lengths.

At the start, the leeward boat's proper course is to head for the windward mark, therefore she cannot sail above that course.
Though the proper course for both the boats may not be the same, however I believe, the onus remains on the leeward boat to convince the Jury of her proper course heading if they land up in the protest room.
Created: 26-Mar-15 06:49
Satish Kumar Kanwar
In addition to what has been conveyed by Captain Jaiswal, before the start, when the leeward boat luffs, she is limited in her actions by rule 16.1.

Case 13 of Case book may also be referred where a leeward boat sails higher than the windward boat to the start line and was within the rules.
Created: 26-Mar-15 07:34
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
The other typical example used in classrooms is the leeward boat was in the midst of a late luffing maneuver vs Windward to clear a lane below her .. or attempt to push W over the line when the gun goes off.

Leeward needs to fall to her close-hauled course after the gun assuming she has the space to do so. 
Created: 26-Mar-15 11:27
Nick Taylor
Thanks Guys
Created: 26-Mar-15 19:38
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