The Racing Rules of Sailing

Can a Boat "Unfinish"?

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Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
Red and Yellow are approaching an upwind finishing line. Red crosses the line (1). 
Red turns downwind to sail back to the Club and opens a suitable beverage (2). 
Yellow, close hauled on starboard tack (1 - 2), luffs to avoid Red (3) and hails “Protest!” (4). 
Red immediately acknowledges her error (4), takes a Two-Turn Penalty (RRS 44.2) and crosses the finish line again (6). 
After (2), Red has finished and is no longer racing. When she fouls Yellow (3) and takes her penalty, then under (a) of the Definition Finish she has now "unfinished" and Yellow's protest is not upheld.
Am I missing something? I also noted that before 2021, Red's only available penalty was to withdraw.

Created: Yesterday 15:55

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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
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  • Regional Judge
Clark .. we had a thread that looked at this idea a few years back and Peter VM sent the questions to the Q&A Service who in turn sent it to the WS Rules Comm.  The result is Case 148 (even using the drawing from the submitted questions). 
Created: Yesterday 15:57
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Angelo Guarino
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Certifications:
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PS: that said above ... if the rule broken is RRS 23.1, then RRS 44.1 is not available to her (by definition within RRS 44.1 and RRS 23.1 .. they are mutually exclusive).  Therefore she can't extend her finish state through def: Finish (a).  

If the rule she breaks is only RRS 10, then she can take a RRS 44.1 penalty and cross again. 

So use Case 148 to determine her racing status, then rule(s) broken, then if 44.1 is avail.

Thinking about Red loosing the boom between 1-2 and then seeing where she is at 2 with the line bisecting her hull .. at pos 2.5, Red might have just cleared the line .. and that's likely when Yellow initiated her avoidance.  One might say it isn't clear that Red cleared the line until  pos 2.5. 
Created: Yesterday 16:06
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21046 - Angelo Guarino
at pos 2.5, Red might have just cleared the line .. and that's likely when Yellow initiated her avoidance.
I understand OP description says Y ... luffs at position 3.

That's consistent with the diagram.

Between @2.5 and @4 R's actions are not consistent with her continuing to sail the course and she is not racing and she cannot 're-finish'.
Created: Yesterday 22:59
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21046 - Angelo Guarino
at pos 2.5, Red might have just cleared the line .. and that's likely when Yellow initiated her avoidance.
I understand OP description says Y ... luffs at position 3.

That's consistent with the diagram.

Between @2.5 and @4 R's actions are not consistent with her continuing to sail the course and she is not racing and she cannot 're-finish'.
Created: Yesterday 23:01
Rob Overton
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • International Umpire
There's a fine line, here.  If Red clears the finishing line before she fouls Yellow, then she's no longer racing and RRS 44 doesn't apply (Preamble to Part 4) so she can't spin to take a penalty. RRS 23.1 applies, so I think the only penalty available to her is to retire from the race she just finished. 

On the other hand  if she's still on the finishing line (and really quick with the beer opening) when she fouls Yellow, then the rest of the story plays out as shown. She hasn't finished because the definition Finish says, "However, she has not finished if after crossing the finishing line she
(a) takes a penalty under rule 44.2, ...".  

As your title suggests, that clause "unfinishes" Red. While she's sailing downwind to get well clear she's no longer racing, but when she begins to take her penalty she's racing again and has not yet finished.
Created: Yesterday 16:30
Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
Rob:
That's kind of my point. Once Red clears the finishing line the first time, she no longer meets the definition of racing, but if she then sails in a circle twice (and meets the other requirements of rule 44.2) and crosses the finishing line again, then her path in total would seem to meet the definition of Finish at (6) and she can avoid retirement or disqualification.
Created: Yesterday 16:37
Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
Angie:
Why isn't RRS 44.1 available to her if she broke RRS 23.1? It's a rule of Part 2, no?
Overall, I think that Red broke both RRS 10 and 23.1.
Created: Yesterday 16:30
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Clark re: "Why isn't RRS 44.1 available to her if she broke RRS 23.1?"

The first sentence of 44.1 is .. (emphasis added)
"A boat may take a Two-Turns Penalty when she may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 in an incident while racing."

Rule 23.1 ..
"If reasonably possible, a boat not racing shall not interfere with a boat that is racing.

The 2 rules are mutually exclusive. 
Created: Yesterday 19:27
Charles Darley
Certifications:
  • Regional Umpire
At 3, red is not racing.   Intro to Part 2, a boat not racing shall not be penalised for breaking one of these rules...


Created: Yesterday 16:32
Arthur Kelley
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
Keep reading that paragraph. "except rule 14... or rule 23.1"
Created: Yesterday 20:25
Philip Hubbell
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
Red has (re)finished behind Yellow, and Yellow still wants to protest?
Created: Yesterday 16:56
Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
It could happen. (sigh)
Created: Yesterday 17:33
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
And the RC could be trying to figure out where to finish Red.
Created: Yesterday 17:37
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
I think this all hinges on what it means to 'clear the finishing line and marks' as this is when a boat is no longer racing.  When has each of these boats 'cleared' the line (please assume the boats aren't all there at the same time!)?

image.png 406 KB

The dictionary definition for clear is:
: unhampered by restriction or limitation: such as
d: free from obstruction
clear passage
f: free from entanglement or contact
staying clear of controversy
keep clear of the boundary

In the OP, the rules of Part 2 (in this case 10 and 23.1) will still apply throughout as I think there is no doubt that Red is still 'sailing in or near the racing area' and she has 'been racing'.  As Rob points out, the two-turn penalty is only available to boats that are racing and so the determination of whether or not she has 'cleared the finishing line' is the critical point.  If she has not cleared the line, then she breaks rule 10 and can take a two-turn penalty and finish a second time.  If she has cleared the line then she breaks rule 23.1 and her only option is to retire.

Using the last point of certainty principle, you would assume that she has not cleared the line until you are certain she has cleared the line.  In this case, I would fall on the side of 'has not cleared', that she breaks rule 10 and not rule 23.1, and take her finish as the one after she did the turns.

I am not sure that Case 148 is all that helpful here as it doesn't give any criteria for what it means to be 'clear of the finishing line'.

The notion of 'unfinishing' is very similar to the notion of 'unbreaking' rule 16 when a boat breaks rule 16 by altering course and not giving a boat the room to keep clear but then continuing to alter course to give that room.  It is the recognition that there is a time element to some of our rules.
Created: Yesterday 17:23
Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
John:
I like the concept of "unbreaking rule 16" in the situation you describe.
In this case, it seems to me that allowing the boat to "unfinish", take a Two-Turn Penalty, and not have to retire or be disqualified fulfills many purposes of rule 44:
1. Proportionality. The punishment fits the crime. The farther away from the finishing line where Red breaks a rule of Part 2 (rules 10, 23.1, or both), the more severe will be her penalty in the extra time and distance that she has to sail in order to cross the finishing line again.
2. Basic Principle - Sportsmanship and the Rules. A boat that realizes that she has infringed a rule can make amends.
3. Self-Policing. No need for the Protest Committee to convene.
It seems to me that with the current definition of "Finish", if a boat breaks a rule of Part 2 in the racing area, it's a good thing if she can take a rule 44 penalty and not be forced to retire or be disqualified.
Created: Yesterday 17:45
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
John C ... Agree .. it's only useful to the extent one believes she was clear of the FL and then we must start considering whether her actions between clearing and the incident were consistent with racing.

Putting that framing into play is useful I think 
Created: Yesterday 20:48
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21053 - John Christman
When has each of these boats 'cleared' the line (please assume the boats aren't all there at the same time!)?
CASE 127
Definitions, Racing 
A boat clears the finishing line and marks when no part of 
her hull, crew or equipment is on the line, and no mark is 
influencing her choice of course.


Red @3,5
Yellow @2:  current is NOT setting her towards the mark
Green @2+delta
Grey @3
Created: Yesterday 22:41
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Umpire
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
John A - What if:

  • Green turns down at position 3 and then is in the same position as Red #3 but hits the mark; or,
  • Grey turns up and tries to go over the bow of the signal boat but hits it

Have these boat 'cleared' and then 'uncleared' the finishing line?  Or can you only tell when they have cleared the line at some random future time or distance from the line?

What happens if Green breaks a rule in position 3 before going down and hitting the mark?  Could she break 23.1 in position 3 w.r..t a boat going downwind (easier to imagine if Green is on port and the boat going downwind is on stbd) and would she then break 31 when she hits the mark?

I think this opens a whole can of 'it depends'.
Created: Yesterday 22:59
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21053 - John Christman
John A - What if: Green turns down at position 3 and then is in the same position as Red #3 but hits the mark; or, Grey turns up and tries to go over the bow of the signal boat but hits it Have these boat 'cleared' and then 'uncleared' the finishin...
For Green and Grey, @2+delta and @3 respectively, no mark is influencing their choice of course.

See  Case 127 last sentence

However, a boat that crosses the finishing line, and sails to a position at which no finishing mark is influencing her choice of course, is no longer racing. If, later, she hits a finishing mark, she does not break rule 31.

I'm good with 'unfinishing' (sometimes), but not with 'uncleared'.
Created: Yesterday 23:15
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21053 - John Christman
The notion of 'unfinishing' is very similar to the notion of 'unbreaking' rule 16 when a boat breaks rule 16 by altering course and not giving a boat the room to keep clear but then continuing to alter course to give that room.
I think there is a distinct difference between 'finishing' and 'giving room'

To finish is an instantaneous action

'Giving room' is a continuous process (which may culminate in 'room given' or 'room not given').

As I said, I'm happy with 'unfinishing' in the context of a boat taking a turns penalty after first crossing the finishing line, but I'm not keen on 'un***' in other contexts.
Created: Yesterday 23:34
John Ball
Nationality: Canada
My view is that as drawn, Red had not cleared the finish line when the incident occurred, and was still 'racing'. So her action in taking n R 44 penalty and returning to finish again is valid. Had she sailed further to windward before turning back, then she could have been consider to have cleared the line and was no longer racing, and so her only option would be to retire.
John

Created: Yesterday 17:36
Rene Nusse
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
A few weeks ago, we had a dinghy finish first. Horn blast and time recorded. Then, directly after, she capsized, and her sail touched the finishing mark. The second-placed boat protested. Similar discussion about finished racing but still racing, I guess...
Created: Yesterday 23:40
Clark Chapin
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
Reply to: 21070 - Rene Nusse
See  Case 127 last sentence
I would say in that case the capsized boat has not "cleared the finishing line and marks" and is therefore still racing.
Case 127 (cited above with a link) seems to speak to this sort of situation.

Created: Today 00:10
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Clark Chapin said Created: Yesterday 17:45 ID: 21057 
In this case, it seems to me that allowing the boat to "unfinish", take a Two-Turn Penalty, and not have to retire or be disqualified fulfills many purposes of rule 44:
1. Proportionality. The punishment fits the crime. The farther away from the finishing line where Red breaks a rule of Part 2 (rules 10, 23.1, or both), the more severe will be her penalty in the extra time and distance that she has to sail in order to cross the finishing line again.
2. Basic Principle - Sportsmanship and the Rules. A boat that realizes that she has infringed a rule can make amends.
3. Self-Policing. No need for the Protest Committee to convene.
It seems to me that with the current definition of "Finish", if a boat breaks a rule of Part 2 in the racing area, it's a good thing if she can take a rule 44 penalty and not be forced to retire or be disqualified.

I think Clark makes 3 very good points.

The problem arises from the 'while racing' condition in RRS 44.1.

The rules could be rewritten to remove the 'while racing' condition in RRS 44.1 and provide that when a boat takes a turns penalty after finishing and then crosses the finishing line from the course side before all other boats have finished, this second crossing  shall constitute her finish.

There are some counter-arguments:
  • Breaches of Part 2 rules by a boat after racing are, regrettably quite common.
  • Breaches of Part 2 rules by a boat after racing are  often the result of carelessness or inattention, rather than errors made under pressure of racing and arguably deserve a more severe penalty.
  • It would create difficulties for the race committee in keeping track of whether a boat had taken a penalty and was 're-finishing' or was just carelessly sailing through the finishing line.
Created: Today 00:39
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
It looks to me as though the boat cleared the line before going downwind so was not racing.

On the downwind leg where there may have been a 10 or obstruction, does it matter.

You have not finished if you do a penalty under 44.2.

44.2 says a two turns penalty.

She did this so she has not finished and she finishes on her second cross.
Created: Today 12:22
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Mike .. I don't think that's correct if we accept your assumption that she cleared the line (and mark-influences) before turning back and therefore was not racing.

If she was not racing, she broke both 10 and 23.1 when in a non-racing state and therefore 44.1 is not available to her for those breaches.

The first sentence of 44.1 is .. (emphasis added)
"A boat may take a Two-Turns Penalty when she may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 in an incident while racing."
Created: Today 12:32
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