The Racing Rules of Sailing

Error of the Race Committee??

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John Standley
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
A mark is laid with excessive line which lies just below the surface and catches the centreboard of the first two boats allowing other boats to catch and pass them. Other boats then sail a bit wider and avoid catching the line.
Can this be considered 'an error of the RC'? Do the two boats meet the requirements to be awarded redress?
Created: Fri 03:11

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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
The RYA certainly thinks so

RYA 1989/10
Redress may be given for a race committee's failure to provide suitably equipped marks.
In cases involving errors by the race committee, it is a good principle that any doubts be resolved in favour of the competitor.
SUMMARY OF THE FACTS
The outer limit mark of the finishing line was attached by cordage of a semi-floating variety which was too long when used ins hallow areas. The excess was usually tied into a bunch but it became loose.
It produced an underwater hazard floating two to three yards to leeward of the mark and, with a flood tide, on the course side of the finishing line. It was not visible to an approaching boat and several boats were caught in this tangle, hit the mark, took a one-turn penalty and re-crossed the line. Only one boat,
Instant Sunshine, requested redress, as the scores of the others were not affected. The protest committee, refusing redress, stated that the mark and ground tackle were the equipment used regularly as a finishing mark in that area and that the length and type of warp was not unreasonable in the circumstances.
Instan tSunshine appealed.
DECISION
Instant Sunshine’s appeal is upheld, and she is to be re-instated in her position when she first crossed the finishing line.
Marks are laid for the benefit of competing boats and it is important that ground tackle be arranged to minimise possibility of being fouled by the boats.
In cases involving errors by the race committee, it is a good principle that any doubts be resolved in favour of the competitor.


And so does Australian Sailing

 2025-04 Sail Port Stephens Matador vs PC-3 pdf 
Created: Fri 03:24
John Standley
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
Thanks John, I recalled something like that but had not been able to locate it.
Created: Fri 03:28
Capt Tribhuwan Jaiswal
Nationality: India
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Race Officer
Yes, it could be considered an error on part of the RC. However, granting redress would have to satisfy other conditions as well.
Created: Fri 04:16
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
Have frequently given redress for this in match racing. 
Created: Fri 07:45
John Standley
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
Mike, As have I but I have normally done this by asking the RO to abandon the race - which they have always done!
Created: Fri 08:24
Karim Hasnaoui
Nationality: Tunisia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
I consider that it is possible to grant redress to the competitor in this case, given that the error in properly securing the mark’s line at the finishing line affected a large number of competitors.
Thank you
Created: Fri 08:04
John Standley
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
Karim: Surely if following boats see a problem but then continue to sail into the rope - which should now be obvious- then this would not be 'through no fault of her own'. So redress for the first 2 but probably not for the others imo.
Created: Fri 08:26
Karim Hasnaoui
Nationality: Tunisia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
Jhon.
When the protest committee decides that a boat is entitled to redress under Rule 62, it shall make as fair an arrangement as possible for all boats affected, whether or not they asked for redress (RRS 64.2).
No????
Created: Fri 08:42
Karim Hasnaoui
Nationality: Tunisia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
The objective is always the overall fairness of the race.
Thanks
Created: Fri 08:44
John Standley
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
Karim, 
The key words here are 'decides that a boat is entitled to redress'. To be entitled to redress a boat is required to meet the requirements of 61(b). This includes passing the 'through no fault of her own' test. A boat that is aware of a problem, in this case the floating rope, but runs into it anyway does not pass this test imo.
Created: Yesterday 00:24
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
Yes you have to be aware as a sailor, sense the problem in front and sail accordingly .

If you should have been aware of the problem, then there is some fault of your own, so no redress.

Watch though for reasonable marklaying, and the boat that almost hits the mark, so is excessivly close, catches the mark and claims redress.

These boats, should have redress refused.
Created: Fri 08:56
Doc Sullivan
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
We did give redress to boats with bulked keels at Chester Race week where they used 800 foot of floating poly in 600 foot of water who caught the line while passing 50 feet from the mark. The next day they had a counterweight
Created: Fri 13:00
In our experience, fishing sinkers or other appropriate counterweights can prevent this scenario from developing.
Created: Fri 13:51
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
This exact scenario happened at an A-Class Catamaran event in 2014, where I was the pin vessel. To shorten the line for finishing, we unclipped the buoy from its anchor / rode and clipped on a float (boat fender). The kellet weight was still attached to the rode, about 3 meters down from the float.  We then set the pin buoy closer to the signal vessel. Once everyone had finished, we pulled the pin buoy and clipped it on to it's original rode. This reduced the cycle time between races, as long as the wind direction was reasonably steady. 

Unbeknownst to us, the current pushed the float upwind, creating a loop of line that lurked just below the surface. The 2nd place boat snagged the loop with their T-foil rudder. They pulled the slack out of the line until it reached the kellet weight (a window sash weight). The weight flipped up and over the T-foil, bringing the boat to an abrupt stop. The "T" broke off in the process of freeing them.

They were awarded redress. Dave Perry was on the jury. I don't put anchors on floats anymore.
Created: Fri 14:48
Walter Boddener
Certifications:
  • National Measurer
  • National Race Officer
  • National Umpire
  • National Judge
The RC must act the same way as sailors, in seamanlike way, so I think anchor lines should be in right angles, specially for keelboats with bulb. This is also very important for starting lines, when the port side is a boat or rib. The RC can use a weight to be sure that the line is under the water. 
Here in Brazil we have two keelboat classes, that have many issues with this situation, and always is given redress, unless if rule 31 is broken at the same time. 
Most of the Race Officers that do races with these classes already knows this matter and normally inform their marklayers to be aware of this, and use always weights near to the the marks tackle and have the right line lenght related to the depth where the mark is laid. 
Created: Fri 16:03
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21124 - Walter Boddener
The RC must act the same way as sailors, in seamanlike way,
HI Walter,

What rule says that sailors must act in a seamanlike way?

What rule says that a race committee must act in a seamanlike way?
Created: Fri 22:24
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
Is it incorporated into the definition of room
Created: Yesterday 06:00
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Yes, so that defines a certain amount of space.

A definition doesn't say a boat shall do anything.
Created: Yesterday 06:05
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
With the redress, if the line was obciously slack on rhe first rounding, or you couls see someone before you catch it 

You may not pass the no fault test especially on later laps.

Created: Yesterday 06:04
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
John wrote:
What rule says that a race committee must act in a seamanlike way?

The answer to your question lies in the definition of the word 'improper'.
Improper has 3 meanings:
- dishonest and against a law or a rule;
- unsuitable or not correct for a particular use or occasion:
- related to sex in a way that is rude or socially unacceptable.

Laying a mark so that boats cannot round it without fouling the anchor line is unsuitable or not correct for that particular occasion. Therefore, it is an improper action of the race committee.

Created: Today 11:16
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Hi Gordon,

I can't see an imperative or the word seamanlike in that definition either.
Created: Today 11:25
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
If the improper action of the RC only affected the first 2 boats, why abandon the race? Redress can be given by awarding average pointed to the 2 boats without disadvantaging the other boats.
Created: Today 11:21
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
John, 
In a nautical context 'seamanlike' refers to behaviour or actions that are suitable or  correct for a particular use or occasion. 

If  the RC performs acts in a way that is unseamnlike or unsuitable or not correct for a particular use or occasion then that is an improper action - one of the conditions for redress.
Created: Today 11:38
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
Gordon where did you get the definition from?

I like it and using it i can think of some judgments that would have gone the other way.
Created: Today 13:32
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