Red is the inside boat. The easiest way to see this is to slide or translate the boats from where they are to them going around the mark. zz1.jpg73.3 KB
I probably should have said a little bit more. Red being the inside boat is just the situation at this moment and is used in applying RRS 18 to the boats in this position. When the boats tack, as they certainly must unless there is an incredible amount of current, the application of RRS 18 will change as the boat entitled to mark room (Red) will have passed head to wind.
It might help Cata to provide a fuller analysis. If the boats comtinue say two boat lengths on their current course then to me it seems hard to argue against blue being the inside boat. But what happens then? How does the relationship change when they tack and blue's mark room ends?
In my opinion, in this picture of position #1, the blue represents the inside boat. I agree that once the blue boat takes, the red one will be the inside boat.
The last sentence of R18.2(a) still requires Blue to give Red mark-room while they remain on starboard tack and Red remains in the zone. Blue is not entitled to mark-room. Red is still the inside boat - she is on the same side of Blue that Blue is required to leave the mark.
The last sentence of R18.2(a) still requires Blue to give Red mark-room while they remain on starboard tack and Red remains in the zone. Blue is not entitled to mark-room. Red is still the inside boat - she is on the same side of Blue that Blue is required to leave the mark.
I want us to focus on position number one. And I appreciate your patience as I continue to consider this case.
Blue's proper course is TACK, so the definition of Mark-Room Room is off.
Mark-Room Room for a boat (a) to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it.....
Then, Red has the right of way under Rule 11 and DOES NOT HAVE TO GIVE Mark Room to blue. ...... so in position N°1 rrs-18 WOULDN'T APPLY ?
18.1 When Rule 18 Applies (a) Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.
Your diagram shows boats Red and Blue, both in the zone and required to leave the mark on the same side. This situation satisfies R18.1(a). The two boats are not on opposite tacks. Neither boat is leaving the mark. The mark is not a continuing obstruction. Therefore, none of the exceptions (1) to (4) are valid. Mark-room has not yet been given, so Rule 18 applies.
If Red and Blue were overlapped at the time the first of them reached the zone, then R18.2(a)(1) requires the outside boat to give the inside boat mark-room. John Christman shows a simple solution to the question of which boat is inside. The diagram does not show a wind direction. It may be possible that the boats could round the mark without needing to tack. In that case, it is easy to see that Red is the inside boat. Whether the boats are on a reach or close-hauled at the position shown, does not change the fact that Red is the inside boat.
If one of the boats tacks, Rule 18 no longer applies due to R18.1(a)(1). If both boats tack onto port and are overlapped, Rule 18.2(c) applies and the inside boat at that time is entitled to mark-room.
I agree that once the blue boat takes, the red one will be the inside boat.
The last sentence of R18.2(a) still requires Blue to give Red mark-room while they remain on starboard tack and Red remains in the zone. Blue is not entitled to mark-room. Red is still the inside boat - she is on the same side of Blue that Blue is required to leave the mark.
The last sentence of R18.2(a) still requires Blue to give Red mark-room while they remain on starboard tack and Red remains in the zone. Blue is not entitled to mark-room. Red is still the inside boat - she is on the same side of Blue that Blue is required to leave the mark.
And I appreciate your patience as I continue to consider this case.
Blue's proper course is TACK, so the definition of Mark-Room Room is off.
Mark-Room Room for a boat
(a) to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it.....
Then, Red has the right of way under Rule 11 and DOES NOT HAVE TO GIVE Mark Room to blue.
...... so in position N°1 rrs-18 WOULDN'T APPLY ?
18.1 When Rule 18 Applies
(a) Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave
a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.
Your diagram shows boats Red and Blue, both in the zone and required to leave the mark on the same side.
This situation satisfies R18.1(a).
The two boats are not on opposite tacks.
Neither boat is leaving the mark.
The mark is not a continuing obstruction.
Therefore, none of the exceptions (1) to (4) are valid.
Mark-room has not yet been given, so Rule 18 applies.
If Red and Blue were overlapped at the time the first of them reached the zone, then R18.2(a)(1) requires the outside boat to give the inside boat mark-room.
John Christman shows a simple solution to the question of which boat is inside.
The diagram does not show a wind direction. It may be possible that the boats could round the mark without needing to tack. In that case, it is easy to see that Red is the inside boat.
Whether the boats are on a reach or close-hauled at the position shown, does not change the fact that Red is the inside boat.
If one of the boats tacks, Rule 18 no longer applies due to R18.1(a)(1).
If both boats tack onto port and are overlapped, Rule 18.2(c) applies and the inside boat at that time is entitled to mark-room.