Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Rule 18,2 (e) Reasonable Doubt

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John Quirk
Nationality: New Zealand
If someone could please set me straight for my own ongoing training (and while spoken of in another aligned posting on RRS standard of proof), as follows:
  • it was  established before, that: for rule 69, uniquely, we have 'comfortable staisfaction' and for all other rules we have 'balance of probabilities' ("(unless an applicable rule requires otherwise)").
  • However, I now see that in 18.2 (e) it uses the term 'reasonable doubt' (being of course a higher standard again than the aforementioned standards).

Is this correct?
Created: Sat 03:21

Comments

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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
I don't think rule 18.2(e) changes that overall test. It just says: if the committee isn't sure whether an overlap started or ended in time, it must assume it did not.
Created: Sat 03:46
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John Quirk
Nationality: New Zealand
Maybe just the RRS authors choice of words then John...yes, the committee action is clear enough - but just generally speaking, a very well used and known term though of course.
Created: Sat 04:07
Wayne Balsiger
Nationality: United States
See <%= Case_link('122') %> that reviews the three standards.

This is the start of Answer 1.  There is much more in the case.

Answer 1
‘Comfortable satisfaction’ is one of three standards of proof commonly used in
courts of law or arbitration hearings. The other two standards are ‘proof beyond
a reasonable doubt’ and ‘balance of probabilities’. The ‘proof beyond a
reasonable doubt’ standard is the strictest of the three standards. It is usually
reserved for serious criminal cases. The ‘balance of probabilities’ standard (also
sometimes referred to as the ‘preponderance of the evidence’ standard) is the
least strict of the three, and it is widely used in civil legal proceedings.
...
Created: Sat 05:32
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Michael Butterfield
Just a couple of comments on the post.
I got the impression with comfortable satisfaction, that say for a warning it may be quite easy to be so satisfied, but for an event disqualification, a lot more evidence would be required.

Reasonable doubt, is hopefully well understood.

I think there is a distinction which the wording hides.

The burden of proof looks at the facts found, and then decides the outcome based on those facts.

The 18 qualification, gives you a means to find a fact (overlap or not) when you have a reasonable doubt about the fact.
Created: Sat 10:08
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John Quirk
Nationality: New Zealand
Thank you all....will ponder it further...


Created: Sat 11:47
Tim O'Connor
A quick note: “burden of proof” can often conflate two different concepts. The first is the onus of proof - who must prove - and the standard of proof - the level to which they must prove.

Balance of probability as standard of proof is “more likely than not” - 50.5% to 49.5%. 

The classic test for “beyond reasonable doubt” is “possible, but not in the least probable.” Now more often phrased as “certain”, but I’d stick with the classic one as being more easily understood. 

“Comfortable satisfaction” isn’t clearly defined. It’s between the two. I’d suggest it’s where you are not finely weighing the odds, as in balance of probabilities, but not quite at “Not in the real world” of beyond reasonable doubt. 
Created: Sat 13:08
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John Quirk
Nationality: New Zealand
Thanks again Tim and all, I have it all well in perspective now - and application subtleties etc as Michael points out...
Created: Yesterday 01:48
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