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The following scenario came up in a race at a downwind gate on a LR2 course. The blue boat has gained an inside overlap for mark 3 before the zone at position 2 it hails for water at the mark but non is given so the blue boat has to duck behind the yellow boat. Blue boat calls protest. Rule 18.2 does not specifically talk about gates nor that boats have to inform the other boat of which mark they are going to choose. So is blue in the right or yellow?gate.jpg129 KB
An excellent example of why a good race officer sets a gate with two separate zones and the "Romulan neutral zone" between. (minimum 7 boat lengths between marks). Then the situation at the entry and exit of boats in relation to each mark's zone would determine application of the rules.
Ulfer, there is no communication obligation on the part of Blue to Yellow to ask for room or to tell Yellow which gate Blue intends to round.
In your scenario, Yellow is both a keep clear boat and a boat that is required to give mark-room.
Looking at your diagram, if overlap initially occurred at @1, Blue must initially give Yellow room to keep clear of her under RRS15, which might mean that Blue needs to alter course to leeward a little such that Yellow's stern can swing so Yellow can turn to windward to both keep clear and provide mark-room.
Assuming Blue initially gives Yellow room to keep clear when overlap was established, Yellow needs to keep clear of, and provide MR to, Blue for the left mark. Yellow does not do that so Yellow breaks RRS 11 ans 18.2.
After that, if Yellow is clear ahead of Blue at the zone of the right mark, Yellow is ROW and entitled to MR at that mark, but it does not negate the fact that she broke RRS 11 and 18.2 at the left mark.
Mark, agreed in this particular situation. I'm just riding a pet peeve. Although, I wonder about the overlap at "2.8" when they entered the zone of the 2nd mark (more of a diagram issue)
Per your diagram, and assuming Blue fulfilled her 15 obligations on acquiring right of way, she is right of way under 11. Even if blue is intending on taking the right gate, as gate marks must be left to a specific side, the left gate meets the criteria under 18.1 of a mark that both boats must leave to the same side (in this case, to starboard for the left gate). Thus, 18.1 applies, and per 18.2, blue is entitled to mark room at that gate. Thus, Yellow breaks 11 and 18.2(a) for failing to keep clear of blue and for not giving mark room to blue to pass the left gate.
Editing to add: As a sailor, I don't mind if the gate zones overlap, and in general, if the gates are too far spread out to satisfy the "zone overlap" criteria, you often end up with boats piling up on one gate, which to me, defeats the purpose of the gate. However, this does depend on the fleet. I race 16' MC Scows and it works for that fleet. For boats with asymmetrical spinnakers that plane into the gates, wider gates do make sense given the speeds. Point is, the rules work regardless, you just need to be aware of them and how they interact.
It is very difficult when the zones overlap. I believe they should not in fleet racing, a minimum of 7 lengths between them. Not to much as if one is out of place the loss going to that mark is enhanced by the distance.
Dave perry in the USA likes overlapping marks for match racing. I had this at a recent event and it made it hard to call, as here you did not reply know which marks the boats wanted to round.
Each mark is treated separately and the obligations are additive when rule 18 applies while the boats are in both zones. Because rule 18.4 doesn't apply at a gate mark, an inside right-of-way boat (Blue for the left gate mark) is not required to gybe.
In this case, Blue is the inside right of way boat in Position 1 when the boats enter the zone of the left gate mark. Yellow is required to keep clear (rule 11) and to give Blue mark-room at the left gate mark (rule 18.2(a)(1)). In my view, Yellow failed to do so at Position 2 and broke both rules. Blue breaks no rules by continuing to sail to the right gate mark.
When the boats enter the zone of the right gate mark, before Position 3, I am assuming from the description that Yellow is clear ahead. Blue must both keep clear (rule 12) and give mark room to Yellow (rule 18.2(a)(2)). Blue does both and no rules are broken.
Summing it all up, Yellow is DSQ for what happens at the left gate mark.
In your scenario, Yellow is both a keep clear boat and a boat that is required to give mark-room.
Looking at your diagram, if overlap initially occurred at @1, Blue must initially give Yellow room to keep clear of her under RRS15, which might mean that Blue needs to alter course to leeward a little such that Yellow's stern can swing so Yellow can turn to windward to both keep clear and provide mark-room.
Assuming Blue initially gives Yellow room to keep clear when overlap was established, Yellow needs to keep clear of, and provide MR to, Blue for the left mark. Yellow does not do that so Yellow breaks RRS 11 ans 18.2.
After that, if Yellow is clear ahead of Blue at the zone of the right mark, Yellow is ROW and entitled to MR at that mark, but it does not negate the fact that she broke RRS 11 and 18.2 at the left mark.
Editing to add: As a sailor, I don't mind if the gate zones overlap, and in general, if the gates are too far spread out to satisfy the "zone overlap" criteria, you often end up with boats piling up on one gate, which to me, defeats the purpose of the gate. However, this does depend on the fleet. I race 16' MC Scows and it works for that fleet. For boats with asymmetrical spinnakers that plane into the gates, wider gates do make sense given the speeds. Point is, the rules work regardless, you just need to be aware of them and how they interact.
Dave perry in the USA likes overlapping marks for match racing. I had this at a recent event and it made it hard to call, as here you did not reply know which marks the boats wanted to round.
Simples! Yellow is DSQ!
In this case, Blue is the inside right of way boat in Position 1 when the boats enter the zone of the left gate mark. Yellow is required to keep clear (rule 11) and to give Blue mark-room at the left gate mark (rule 18.2(a)(1)). In my view, Yellow failed to do so at Position 2 and broke both rules. Blue breaks no rules by continuing to sail to the right gate mark.
When the boats enter the zone of the right gate mark, before Position 3, I am assuming from the description that Yellow is clear ahead. Blue must both keep clear (rule 12) and give mark room to Yellow (rule 18.2(a)(2)). Blue does both and no rules are broken.
Summing it all up, Yellow is DSQ for what happens at the left gate mark.