Forum: Rule 18 and Room at the Mark
Giving Mark Room on opposite tacks
In the situation above, the course is A -> B -> C, (not to scale) all port roundings. It is a bad course because there is a 270 degree turn at B, but these things happen!
- Blue is keep-clear (12) and orange has reached the zone, so it also owed mark room
- Blue is still keep-clear (12) and orange is leading into a rounding of B. However, orange has come in tight to the mark, whilst Blue has given herself room for a tactical rounding.
- At 3a, both boats have rounded down as tightly as they can practically go, i.e. they are not sailing further away from the mark than it is possible for them to turn in a seaman like manner, but Orange has sailed wide and opened a gap into which B has sailed. Orange is now keep clear boat (11), but is still owed mark room by Blue, who is limited by 18.2, 17 and 15.
At 3b, Orange Gybes, Blue does not. Orange is now keep clear by 10) as the boats are on opposite tacks. Is orange still owed mark room? - Blue was forced to gybe to avoid contact with Orange. Did Blue break a rule?
To answer this we need to know if mark room is still owed at 3b? The boats at 3b are on opposite tacks and by 18.1(a)(1) 18 does not apply to boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward. The leg A to B is a beat to windward, but whilst they are rounding the mark they are now running and will soon be reaching to C
If 18 does apply, then I think it is pretty clear from 18.4 that Blue cannot sail away from the mark and must gybe, as is her proper course. The fact that she is not owed mark-room does not enter into 18.4 considerations. All it needs is for 18 to apply, Blue to by right of way (she is by 18.2 and to have an inside overlap (she does as they are more than 90 degrees to the wind).
So ultimately I think I'm just checking that the "on a beat to windward" applies to the instant the rule is being considered and not to the leg to which to mark is the end of.
regards
Created: Yesterday 10:54
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Apply the exception tests in RRS 18.1 @3b when O gybes:
As I see the diagram, at no time from @3 to @4 has O left the mark astern: if it was contended by B that she had left the mark astern (and thus had been given mark-room), I expect that I would be in doubt, and apply the last point of certainty: the last point of certainty was that she had not left the mark astern so she is presumed to still be in that state: she has not left the mark astern.
Arguably this consideration is out of sequence: one approach to Definition Mark-room is that you don't consider one step until the preceding step has been completed: O is rounding the mark until she reaches her course to the next mark, somewhere about @4, so @3, @3a, and @3b she is rounding the mark and whether she has left the mark astern is irrelevant.
So @3b, O is rounding the mark: she is entitled to mark-room and is sailing within the mark-room to which she is entitled.
@3b plus delta when B changes course to avoid O, O is still sailing within the mark-room to which she is entitled. She breaks RRS 11, but is exonerated by RRS 43.1(b).
B acquired right of way @3a, not through O's actions, so B was required by RRS 15 initially to give O room to keep clear. I think she does this between @3a and @3b and by the time of @3b, the 'initially' is over, so B had complied with RRS 15.
RRS 18.4 applies to B from the time she becomes overlapped inside O @3a. B is also required to give O mark-room: if she did sail beyond her proper course, she would be denying O mark-room. But I don't think that she looks anything like sailing further from the mark than her proper course.
AFAICS the only rule broken was RRS 11 by O, for which she was exonerated.
I seem to have a recollection of a recent case, appeal or Q&A, which I can't now find that dealt with a mark-room entitled boat rounding very wide, and
EDIT: so TR Call J11 deals with the mark-room entitled boat rounding wide no having left the mark astern.
EDIT 2: US Appeal 130 covers mark astern but rounding onto course to next mark.
I think that at point 3B it is possible that B is keeping O from gybing as quickly as O would like. It is possible that B is breaking 18.2 at that point.
(Lastly, I continue to hate this new rule. I had always felt that a boat has been granted mark-room when the buoy (and any other boats they owe buoy-room to) no longer constrains their proper course. This is clearly the case by position 3A IMO.)
The problem here is the new definition of mark room.
The boat has mark room and she is allowed to pass close to the mark.
Then she has room to round it, this is an extended distance because of the direction of the new mark.
She's seems to have mark room through so is protected.
The rule problem is the leave the mark astern. This really gas me conflicted, and I look at the different match race rule.
Rules should be complimentary and not diverge if possible.
If she leaves the mark astern before she gybe has she had her mark room?
Do team racing battle take a boat to the zone leaving the mark astern and still have mark room...?
Not obvious, but seems to be a WS interpretation (NOT IN THE TEXT ) THAT YOU HAVE TO FINISH ROUNDING BEFORE YOY LEAVE THE MARK astern.
To me a newly created mess by ws,
Race committees should never set courses so that the taut string in the definition crosses over itself at any rounding mark since this would put boats in the same or different races at unnecessary hazard with each other in their rounding manoeuvres.
It was introduced into the RRS in 2009, sixteen years ago. and was tweaked in 2021 to accommodate the new definition "Sail the Course". and this year to no longer give room to tack at a starboard mark rounding.
(Edited 1338 EDT to add the 2025 tweak)
It is only relevant here under 18.4 if a boat has to gybe to sail their proper course.
Then the test is "sails no further than is required"
Proper course is becoming a problem in the rules.
You can sail to the marl if your proper course is to sail close to it.
Then it is just mark room and this does not say how you round the mark.
Proper course sets some of the conditions but unless you are in match racing you have no right to a proper course rounding.
The question is about when does the room that Blue owe to orange end.
Greg's right, it's B that is required to give mark-room. B is not required to give mark-room because she is the right of way boat, but because she was clear astern of O when the first of them reached the zone.
O's entitlement to mark-room ends, according to RRS 18.2(b) or 18.1(b), when O passes head to wind or leaves the zone, or when mark-room has been given.
Mark-Room is defined as
Room for a boat
(a) to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it,
(b) to round or pass the mark on the required side, and
(c) to leave it astern.
Considering this discussion and the TR Call and US Appeal, we can say that mark-room has been given when a boat:
Usually a boat will do those things in the order shown but if a boat leaves the mark astern before she has rounded it onto her new course she remains entitled to mark-room.
Diagram 2 and 3 are similar to the question.
Gybe promptly is noted.
Diagram 8 shows when a boat had left the mark astern